>>94428132
> Vampires are creatures of Death and Mind
No, they’re undead animated by their Beast and a supernatural curse from God that has absolutely nothing to do with the Spheres.

Mage and Vampire (and all the other splats) are more interesting if those other splats just sit completely outside Mages’ perception of reality and how the universe works. They can be interacted with via Mage’s magic to an extent, but there is a certain point where it just totally breaks down because there are some laws you cannot break, some rules you cannot subvert, and some mysteries you cannot solve.

Also from a meta standpoint, Vampire will always outsell Mage, so Vampire will always be the most important splat, and so any time there’s serious mage-verses-vampire stuff going down the vampires will come out on top. Witness the Week of Nightmares in classic WoD for a great example of this: the Technocracy in a matter of just a few hours went from “for all intents and purposes we have won the war for reality” to “oh fuck oh shit why won’t this thing die fuck the conspiracy it doesn’t matter how many Sleepers see what we’re about to do this needs to end NOW or there won’t BE a world to control.” All over a vampire demigod who was expressly the weakest of the original Antediluvians, who were combined only barely on par with the Second Generation, and all sixteen of them combined couldn’t hold a candle to Caine, who is himself absolutely nothing before God.

The Technocracy was allowed a victory against Zapathasura only because the sheer effort needed to bring him down showcased just how out of their depth they were against the vampire’s demigods and how powerless they’d be to deal with the serious heavy-hitters like Ennoia or Tzimisce.

Since mages will never be able to actually one-up vampires in official material to any real extent, I don’t see the point in allowing that delusion to persist in-universe either.

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